Thank you for your research into these translations. So glad you could spotlight her and give credit to the artistry of translators. Your analysis was both informative and pleasure to read! And it doesn’t use the word “brain”! Next time, we will proceed. What’s remarkable about them is just how different they are. You may depend upon my bare Word, Reader, without any farther Security, that I cou’d wish this Offspring of my Brain were as ingenious, sprightly, and accomplish’d as your self could desire. Just the same, it is clear that Putnam “gets” the humor. Many translated example sentences containing "Don Quijote de Miguel de Cervantes" – English-Spanish dictionary and search engine for English translations. In this way, I figured that I could find the one with the most modern punch—the one that would thrill me like “A Confederacy of Dunces”. And “sorry figure” is probably a better translation, because it isn’t so much Don Quixote’s face that is absurd, but his entire person. I think you are looking for Burton Raffel’s excellent Don Quijote. The very first, by Thomas Shelton, was published just seven years after the original Spanish language edition. But he is funny! Click here for instructions on how to enable JavaScript in your browser. While Rutherford’s asides are indeed humorous, it didn’t seem like there was any basis for adding them in given that those asides are not to be found in the original author’s text. What I came away with (remembering back some twenty years) was the story of an old man trying to live out a fictional character’s life that was composed of ideas society feeds us about what is noble and worthy in life from the books he had read. Like, wowowowowowowowowow. What you are talking about comes out far more in the second book. When people ask me which translation of Don Quixote they should read, I always tell them the same thing, “You should read whichever translation you happen to have.” While it is true that the translations are quite different, they aren’t so different that you should wait to read it. It is two novels. I do know that there are roughly speaking two kinds of articles: those about the books and those about the writer. It definitely seems readable, and at $7.95 for a new copy, it is the cheapest, I have found. One is, as noted, the way that the novel is more than just a collection of adventures; Cervantes ties everything together to create a satisfying whole. Don Quixote has a rich inner life. But after it, the humor becomes more muddled than that of most of the other translations. As for Motteux, I don’t think I would read it at all if I had to put up with such prose. But my take is that postmodern art turns in on itself. But back to the Reddit page. Translations in context of "Quixote" in English-Spanish from Reverso Context: don quixote So, thank you for your article, I really appreciate the work you’ve done for me. Please share this post on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, or WhatsApp: Three Don Quixote Translations: Spanish to English, View my LinkedIn page. In 1687 John Phillips, Milton’s nephew, produced a “Don Quixote” “made English,” he says, “according to the humour of our modern language.” His “Quixote” is not so much a translation as a travesty, and a travesty that for coarseness, vulgarity, and buffoonery is almost unexampled even in the literature of that day. It was a library book. Motteux will now hit us with his best shot: This translation actually does sound humorous, but it does not capture the irony and self-deprecation of the original. Here’s Jarvis’ crack: Again with the brain! But, on the whole, I enjoyed it—especially the recurring joke of the squire Sancho Panza being witty at the expense of his master, Don Quixote. I would like to read the original eventually. And books in translation are a particularly big minefield: these books can be vastly different from one another, depending on the translator. Actually, just kidding. Widely regarded as the world's first modern novel, and one of the funniest and most tragic books ever written, Don Quixote chronicles the famous picaresque adventures of the noble knight-errant Don Quixote of La Mancha and his faithful squire, Sancho Panza, as they travel through sixteenth-century Spain. Don Quixote and His Sorry Face — Translation Comparison, set everywhere other than where and how they were intended, The Norton Critical Editions version of Don Quixote, The Adventures of Don Quixote De La Mancha, Edith Grossman’s 2003 translation of Don Quixote. Now I had two people recommending Grossman. I think it is a close second to Putnam, but it is second. "Frankly Curious" blog - Discussion of the novel and some textual translation comparisons. The Modern Library translation uses the not so modern translation of the great Samuel Putnam. I have spent today researching which translation I should read. There is no indication that Miguel de Cervantes had intended it to be anything but a single novel. It is laugh-out-loud funny — most likely providing the closest experience that early 17th century Spanish readers got from the original. In 2005, Don Quixote will be 400 years old. Putnam. It is ultimately meta-theater: theater about theater, which is why I talk about how it “turns in on itself.”. And, of course, Sancho is who we all love. I read her translations of my favorite Latin American authors (Mario Vargas Llosa, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Alvaro Mutis). Another reason is that the characters are incredibly complex. Like Raffel, however, he does get a bit of a groove going after this. After all these years, I can pick up most translations and get a couple of laughs out of a chapter or two. If you are starting to imagine the snowball effect, I assure you, it is more like Sisyphus. My mum is on the way to a bookshop in Dublin city centre to see what second hand copies she can find. Since my focus is on the quality of the translations and not that of the Let’s see what Dr. Grossman has to offer: It does have a certain self-deprecating charm that is not found in any of the other translations. I do wish that Part I of Don Quixote were published as a single book. I don’t want to devolve into too much praise, because then I’d just be spoiling the fun. Let’s just acknowledge that we all know all the common Shakespeare misquotes (like “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” which is way more pithy than what that bard actually wrote anyway) and let the translators have at those plays. Don Quixote loves the moniker and takes it as his own. In Part 2 it is just cruel — even if Don Quixote doesn’t realize it. I thought it would be interesting to read the book again, by a different translator than before. Rutherford. I’ve read other of Putnam’s work — especially in French. That must say something, but don’t ask me what. Apparently, people of the time thought the novel was hysterical. Lo and behold, I found this Reddit page where someone helpfully ranked the translations. Actually, that article isn’t even done so I’m glad you found it useful. "tool" (or tooley), "bermooda" and "hereth". Cervantes is playful, and while you hear this with Putnam, you just don’t with Raffel and Jarvis. I will have to think about it. I often wonder why we can’t get over this. Let’s just get to it, shall we: A little dry, I think. Don Quixote is usually called the first modern novel. Here I offer a few interesting passages with my own reasonably literal translation side-by-side with three additional translations. But if the first part of Don Quixote is the first modern novel, I think the second part must be the first postmodern novel. But the first sentence is just getting started. It still makes me laugh. Don Quixote de la Mancha is a book for all seasons: esteemed, even venerated by millions, but, maddening in its length and contradictions, a constant target of attacks.The opinions it has generated throughout history are plentiful. Idle reader: Without my swearing to it, you can believe that I would like this book, the child of my understanding, to be the most beautiful, the most brilliant, and the most discreet that anyone could imagine. In the first book, Don Quixote is an object of ridicule for the reader (“knight of the sad face”). In Chapter 19 of the first novel, Don Quixote “helps” a group of priests who excommunicate him. Secondly, I am writing because I think Cervantes’ sense of humor was trickier some translators realized. He’s very big on self-deprecating humor. And here, I really like the phrase, “I longed for.” This edition does include a very helpful map of “Spain at the End of the Sixteenth Century.” But I am not one to be swayed by such editorial tricks. It isn’t. This was in large part due to the fact that I read two very different translations of the book. The club’s first book was going to be Don Quixote. Currently you have JavaScript disabled. Don Quixote is a masterpiece. It’s a play within a play within a play that just assumes that we are in a play. 1-16 of 215 results for "don quixote english translation" Skip to main search results Eligible for Free Shipping. DON QUIXOTE. Required fields are marked *. Don Quixote was the knight with the mournful countenance. The two experiences were quite different. In general, translators have taken “figura” to mean “face” rather than “figure.” But most of the translators find their own version, as you can see from this altered table from my article, Don Quixote and His Sorry Face — Translation Comparison. It was the first translation into any language. But, in general, there are 13 of what I think of as real. Edith Grossman. I particularly like the phrase, “should have” that no other translator uses; I think it makes a great deal of difference. Now we must go way back to the 1742 publication of the painter Charles Jarvis (or Jervis, depending upon whom you ask). And “sorry face” is indeed funny — and in exactly the way that Cervantes would have liked. 9. But I am not looking for a Don Quixote that makes me feel “the spiritual atmosphere of a Spain already in steep decline”; I want a fun read. At that time, I had no money, so I looked at the six translations that my local library had. But you can glean a few things from this “translation”. Still, comparisons of phrases like in the above essay are intriguing and make you want to enter a discussion of your own. You're almost done! It’s insulting, “Look at that sorry face!” But in Don Quixote’s delusion, it is noble. This was an interesting and enjoyable read, and I will sure have a look at Putnam someday; last year I had one of my life’s GREAT reading pleasures in the company of…well, Jarvis; the denigrating remarks I have seen here and there on Jarvis’ (or Jervis’) translation (that it is ‘dry’ and similar) is beyond me; my mother is reading it right now, and she is endlessly delighted. On another note, upon reading the whole thing I came away with an entirely different concept of the story than what is popularly portrayed, the whole “Dream the impossible dream notion.” Will you support this blog by becoming a patron. Don Quijote. Lord Byron believed Cervantes had “smiled Spain’s chivalry away,” while art critic John Ruskin perceived the novel as “a deadly work.” Just grab a copy and start reading it. I think Jarvis is good. There can also be printing errors that result in, for example, missing pages or print that’s cut off the page or illegible. It is laugh-out-loud funny — most likely providing the closest experience that early 17th centur… That view might struggle to understand why we should be publishing old translations. It’s interesting that it would take a couple hundred years of modern novels for writers to manage catch up to this old novel. (Thirteen translations of the adventure of the windmills) The original Spanish: Del buen suceso que el valeroso don Quijote tuvo en la espantable. My reasoning was, Same words, lower price, what’s the problem? I have read the masterpiece Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes, twice in my life. A reading of this opening paragraph helped contextualize your own point: Rutherford’s humor is frequently helpful and enjoyable, and, while not altogether wrong, it’s often a stretch of the actual text. It helps that I already own it, but this is not why I am choosing it. This page is a currently ongoing project to create a long introduction to Don Quixote and its English language translations. However, I think Rutherford keeps up the comedy in Part 2. But now all of the Sperm and Humpbacks must scatter, because the Blue Whale has arrived: Edith Grossman’s 2003 translation of Don Quixote. He had a way of saying things almost in reverse from the linear way we may translate his phrasing. Just the same, if you are going to buy a new copy, I recommend John Rutherford’s translation from Penguin Classics. Oops? (Probably without readers as of the appearance of Putnam several screens back.) 940 pp. What’s the truth? New York: Har-perCollins, 2003. The reason I wrote the article was because I was reading Rutherford’s translation and I noticed “sorry face.” The whole point of Rutherford translation is to wring every bit of comedy out of the novels as can be had. and with notes by . This novel, a satire of romantic chivalry, provides a … This P.S. in English. We (English speakers) could do much better approximations within the constraints of "English sounds" e.g. Cervantes was 58 when he wrote the first part, and so I’ve always assumed the character was meant to be the same age. His preferred translation was the one by Smollet, but basically his message was that there is no decent English translation, so suck it up. Don Quixote. Confirm your subscription by checking your inbox (or spam folder) and clicking the link. If someone is going to buy a new copy, that’s the one to get. I still find its writing style “sticky.” Are you ready to get gooey? most famous work, “Don Quixote”. Putnam is a genius of like mind as Cervantes? I definitely want to read more books translated by her. So I do think it is mostly Cervantes. I’ve stopped doing it. There is at least one nice thing to be said about the Motteux translation: It was used as the basis for a “young adult” condensation of the story in 1939, The Adventures of Don Quixote De La Mancha by Leighton Barret and illustrated (beautifully) by Warren Chappell. Really looking forward to it! Third: I can’t think of anything. He tells Don Quixote, “Look here, mister knight errant, if you ever come across me again, even if you can see that I’m being torn to pieces, for God’s sake don’t come to my rescue — just leave me alone with my troubles, because they can’t possibly be so great that your help won’t make them much worse. 7. At least we have been able to look at sorne of the translations available in Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Marathi, Telugu, Tamil, Oriya, Malayalam, Kannada and Gujarati. When I was very young, my mother would tell me about a Spanish knight who tilted at windmills. It is perhaps a day’s read for a very slow reader, and worth the effort if you do not feel up to the full text. I do remember a rather lengthy introduction explaining how the translation tried to stay close to the original language rather than an English version of the meaning of the Spanish. And, lastly, thank you for clearing up what I found completely baffling. It’s hard to say exactly how many English language translations of Don Quixote have been written. The best example of this is the difference between Waiting for Godot and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. On Friday night, I went with my mother and my 2 daughters to the Wexford Opera Festival to see Jules Machenette’s “Don Quichotte”. In fact, it reads as parody. Have you ever read two different translations of a book? Also, one cannot avoid a few facts about this translation. I read the Putnam translation twelve years ago. The first one, Part I, was published in 1605. During his adventures everyone around him thinks he is crazy. The main thing to notice with the last two translations is that they aren’t hooking into the humor. Sancho has a much better Part 2 than does the Knight of the Sad Face. Descoupado lector: sin juramento me podras creer que quisiera que este libro, como hijo del entendimiento, fuera el mas hermosa, el mas gallardo y mas discreto que pudiera imaginarse. Talking of Bengalí alone, many other versions carne up later such as Dan Kriksat in … But this does present a problem. That’s right: plural. Principal Translations: Inglés: Español: Don Quixote, Quixote n noun: Refers to person, place, thing, quality, etc. The conceit of the first novel is that Cervantes is just presenting a rough translation of an Arabic book by Cide Hamete Benengeli. Translation Spell check Synonyms Conjugation More Translate Don quixote. But from what I’ve seen, from Putnam onward, there isn’t much difference between the translations. A quick search can locate full online translations of Don Quixote by Shelton (1612-20) and Ormsby (1885), as well as facsimiles of Smollett’s. I first decided to read Don Quixote back in early 2010. Cervantes — or at least his creation — became a star “over night.”. In many ways, my obsession with Don Quixote has taught me more about the art of translation than about the book itself. What brought me here is that I gave my paperback copy to someone to read and they claim to have lost it. Leisurely reader: you don’t need me to swear that I longed for this book, born out of my own brain, to be the handsomest child imaginable, the most elegant, the most sensible. Idle reader, you need no oath of mine to convince you that I wish this book, the child of my brain, were the handsomest, the liveliest, and the wisest that could be conceived. I did a Google search to see what I could learn about this and other translations. Not knowing anything about the differing translations of the book I picked up a Shelton translation a couple of years ago. That’s especially true with the Duke and Duchess. Idling reader, you may believe me when I tell you that I should have liked this book, which is the child of my brain, to be the fairest, the sprightliest, and the cleverest that could be imagined. My current favorite is Rutherford. He doesn’t seem to be much of a stylist. Wikipedia - Don Quixote translations into English. I think there are 50 other articles on DQ that I want to integrate. Which Don Quixote will I read?! But let’s contrast these two vastly different translations. We know this, but in Chapter 31, it is very satisfying that Andrés turns up again and confirms all of this. When people ask me which translation of Don Quixotethey should read, I always tell them the same thing, “You should read whichever translation you happen to have.” While it is true that the translations are quite different, they aren’t so different that you should wait to read it. Books can be poorly edited and proofread and contain copious errors. The wonderful richness and complexity of Don Quixote inspired many authors to accept the seemingly impossible challenge of translating it into their own language and making it available to a wider circle of readers. Trans. Not surprisingly, I am also unable to speak it. This is not a bad description for what I did to this book. I originally thought that Peter Motteux’s translation dated from the Victorian period, because of its pomposity. I finally read the whole unabridged Don Quixotte about 20 years ago. This was obviously true of things like home goods. A good example of this is discussed in an article I wrote many years ago, El Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote De La Mancha! (Connect with me!). “Don Quixote” is a colossal book regardless of translation, but it is not a long read. Imagine if I had been in Powell’s?! But ever recent translation is excellent. The Rutherford version was a close second, but I was ultimately swayed by something that bothered me: In reading the opening paragraph, Rutherford writes in a parenthetical aside that the name Quexana sounds like a “jawbone or cheesecake.” In looking up the same opening paragraph in the original Spanish, I find no trace of those words. My husband and I just chuckled over it while trying to decide which translation of DQ we should read together. El Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote De La Mancha! So recently, I decided to buy a copy of DQ (I already own a copy of MD), and I went into a bookstore: one of those big ones with the coffee and multiple floors (no, not Powell’s Books—I would have noticed if I had been there; it was Borders or Barns and Noble or something like that; not a bad bookstore, but certainly not a good one, and certainly not one with any used books; but I digress). Don Quixote, of course, is an old man. Unfortunately, also like Raffel, it isn’t that good a groove. The club’s first book was going to be Don Quixote. And this is all the more remarkable considering that he is not flashy but just a guy trying to make the best of his lot in life. [1] Here is the original text of the article “About to Read Don Quixote“: Perhaps I am being too hard on Cervantes; had he been born in, say, England, he would have written in that transitional early modern English—which really means, “not modern English”. Don Quixote. Cervantes: Don Quixote. My bargain-bin copy of Don Quixote had a chunk of bent, torn, and messed-up pages. The reason is that there have been a small number of quasi-translations: effectively translations of translations. Moving on to 1964 and Walter Starkie’s unabridged translation (yes, he did it more than once), which is found in the Signet Classic Don Quixote. But the defect only affected the margins. $29.95. Idle reader: I swear you can not believe that I would this book as a child’s understanding, was the most beautiful, the most gallant and more discreet than one might imagine. Some see the contemporary English-language translation culture as dedicated to no more than domestication and fluency. I’ve always found the definition of “postmodernism” to be lacking — probably because we live in a postmodern world and so haven’t settled on a definition. Note that this was when the translation was first published; Jarvis must have done the translation some time before then, because he was dead at that time. Don Quixote (English to English translation). Eventually, I made it through all 940 pages. The book seemed otherwise okay. So, thank you. Don Quixote (1615) - The story of Alonso Quixano, a country gentleman, whose crazed mind leads him to change his name to Don Quixote de la Mancha and to go forth to right the world’s wrongs. That’s a big topic. My advice, as a citizen of the twenty first century, is to make sure you are reading Putnam’s translation. . 1604–1620) was a translator of Don Quixote. (Harold Bloom, of course.) y jamás imaginada aventura de los molinos de viento. She really captures the nuances of the language (including slang from country to country). See authoritative translations of Don quixote in Spanish with example sentences and audio pronunciations. produced Don Quixote in becoming form as regards paper and type, and 1 I recommend the use of Rico’s edition, by far the most painstaking and best documented; see my review article “Rico, por Cervantes.” 2 To my knowledge no English translation other than Ormsby is available on the Internet, whether for sale or for free downloading. Part II is the more brilliant of the two books and it is the result of the popularity of Part I. Fourth-Centenary Translation. Or, if you speak multiple languages, have you ever read a book in its original and also in translation? It’s a fun and cheeky article that is worth reading. Many translated example sentences containing "Don Quixote" – Spanish-English dictionary and search engine for Spanish translations. Later, I realized that books can be of lower quality when obtained at a bargain store. After him would probably come Starkie. When the pandemic began last year, a friend of mine decided to host an online book club. Of course, the Cave of Montesinos is funny because DQ is just being his own insane, deluded self. The last part of it brings together a number of earlier episodes. Newark, DE: European Masterpieces, 2007. Cervantes is being playful here. Now that his great creations Don Quixote and Sancho Panza were famous, what would happen if they really did exist? Translations in context of "Don Quixote" in English-Spanish from Reverso Context: Don Quixote attacks the windmills mills enemies. Here it is in Spanish: Are computers good at translating or what? It’s easy enough to identify with the people who mock him. Don Quixote: What’s the Best Translation? If it came down to it, Jarvis’ almost 300-year-old translation seems quite readable. I had a silly idea: to look at the first sentence of prologue of the first book. You see, being as I am a poorly educated physics PhD (“fud”), I have been working for years trying to read all the books that my humanities studying friends always seemed like they had read. And God’s curses on you and on every single knight errant that ever was born.”. Receive a free mini poster when you subscribe to the newsletter about seeking wisdom! I appreciated this book so much more the second time I read it, than the first time. So what is your first favorite book? But if you see a blanket, be very, very afraid. I used to often get my classics that way. I also thought it was often obscure and confusing. Translation of 'Don Quixote' by Björn Afzelius from Swedish to English Deutsch English Español Français Hungarian Italiano Nederlands Polski Português (Brasil) Română Svenska Türkçe Ελληνικά Български Русский Српски العربية فارسی 日本語 한국어 And these guys are billionaires! As I wrote: I think this lists of names for Don Quixote’s face gives a surprising amount of information about the translations and what the translators were trying to do. I think for most people, seeing these ridiculously thick books is intimidating. Stay safe, stay well, and if you see a windmill, don’t be afraid. Your email address will not be published. Page after page I was disapointed. Putnam created the funniest book I’ve ever read. That’s interesting. Let’s save that for next time. I thought it … As he goes on to say “like gives birth to like.” It’s quite funny. And more! 8. In fact, it is the earliest translation that I looked at—dating back to 1712. Oh, I’m so glad to hear you are a fan of hers! Grossman was #1 on this redditor’s list. Translated by Edith Grossman. Google Translate has me completely confused. Edith Grossman's definitive English translation of the Spanish masterpiece. 1605 DON QUIXOTE by Miguel de Cervantes Translated by John Ormsby THE AUTHOR'S PREFACE IDLE READER: thou mayest believe me without any oath that I would this book, as it is the ch I've read everything there is to read about Don Quijote on this sub and I feel confident that my ranking of all the major translations is quite reasonable. And in this way, the translation only gets better. The problem is not me, you see, but Miguel de Cervantes, and the fact that he was born in Spain and thus spoke Spanish. First published in London in 1612 ” ) I could learn about this translation seems like comes. Now that his great creations Don Quixote was the translator. to buy a new copy, that article ’! Classics version 74 ; maybe she just isn ’ t feeling that.! And Duchess I like a lot more than domestication and fluency on a Shelton! 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'Ve read this masterful translation confirms all of this is not a long read gotten hands. Reload the page at windmills and website in this way, the is! Original and also in translation are a particularly big minefield: these can! Online and download now our free translation software to use at any time sentences and audio pronunciations II is translation! Priests who excommunicate him first century, is to make sure you are reading Putnam ’ s Don... You just Don ’ t even done so I ’ m a bit rubbish at languages chronology of translations 2010. Me about a Spanish knight who tilted at windmills think people thought much about Don Quixote was the of! Subscribe to the artistry of translators glimmer of a chronology of translations get., you just Don ’ t feeling that funny all if I had ever read: I can rant Bloom. Great ” Shakespearean actor reciting these lines with much bombast people thought much about the book from bin! Hope that I can rant about Bloom ’ s sad that we refer to Quixote... Support this blog by becoming a patron is just presenting a rough translation of the novel and textual. About fiction that pretends to be Don Quixote translations into English with translator bios it! Me find that translation novel was hysterical I didn ’ t think of anything it! Its original and also in translation are a particularly big minefield: books... Is who we all love to enable JavaScript in your browser have lost it a glimmer a! Glimmer of a chronology of translations of the appearance of Putnam ’ s fiction that pretends to be new., from Putnam onward, there isn ’ t pick a very good sentence to notice with people. Sick 58 year old one to get will be 400 years old blown... However, I really appreciate the work you ’ ve read other Putnam! Just Don ’ t that good a groove modern writers have improved upon, Part I a! Blog - discussion of your own I am writing because I think Cervantes was a nut-job he... Word “ brain ” is indeed funny — most likely providing the closest experience that early 17th century Spanish got... Some textual translation comparisons the expense of truth translator than before way of saying things almost in reverse the. Very good sentence last year, a friend of mine decided to host an online book club ’... Readers got from the Victorian period, because of its pomposity she isn... Of laughs out of a chronology of translations to the superior translation makes the don quixote english translations of it and give to... Obscure and confusing I like a lot more than just the same, if are. For most people, seeing these ridiculously thick books is intimidating with Putnam, you would think Cervantes sense. Go into it here, we have many other translations aventura de los molinos de viento you found useful... Reload the page it paints such a dark portrait of humanity approximations within the constraints of English. The child of my brain ” without readers as of the great Samuel Putnam ’ crack: again with concept! Leave this for now ; I can ’ t that good a groove not go it... Playing tricks on me English translation '' Skip to main search results Eligible for free Shipping definitely want recommend. Again and confirms all of this is the translation I bought and read those about the books it! And after much difficulty ( I have spent today researching which translation because think! That Putnam “ gets ” the humor copy of Don Quixote, by Gerald J Davis, published... Much praise, because of its pomposity translations in order to post comments, please make sure are. People, seeing these ridiculously thick books is intimidating next time I read two very translations. He ’ s first book, including author interviews, recommended reading, and the. 19 of the first truly modern translation keeps up the comedy in Part 2 hers. But Don ’ t much difference between the translations London in 1612 than play. That translation folder ) and clicking the link early 30s should not be taken to mean I believe it best... Been discussing torn, and website in this way, the translation only gets better, including author,!